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Talk:Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto/Archive 1
Amagai Arc Shouldn't someone add the new information from the Captain Amagai arc? Such as he killed Amagai's father etcCrimmastermind 03:42, 20 September 2008 (UTC) Maybe they should, however, do filler arcs really mean that much? Arieus 08:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC) spiritual power classification I've been looking at Yamamoto's Powers and abilities section and it say's immense spiritual power but since he has mastered all forms of shinigami combat knows most of if not all the techniques (shunko and similar others not included) is the one who created the academy and has thousands of years of experience that's more than most of the characters combined if I'm not mistaken and has the most powerful zanpakuto in existence, so shouldn't it be classified as colossal spiritual power or something similar, I mean you can't just state the everyone has either Vast spiritual power, Great spiritual power or Immense spiritual power it's redundant.--SalmanH 13:05, 10 May 2009 (UTC) The power classification is kept simple. Spiritual Power: for those possessing spiritual power but to what level or extent is yet unknown such as Orihime or Chad. High Spiritual Energy: For those of significant skill and power such as the high level fighters such as Renji, and Ikkaku. Great Spiritual Energy: for those of captain level such as soifon and Sajin. Immense Spiritual Energy for those of noticeably high levels of spiritual energy that greatly increase their powers in battle or that directly affects the surrounding environment and is ridiculously powerful but mastered by those possessing it. Such as Yamamoto or Toshiro, Vast Spiritual Energy for those who have a whole lot of spiritual power but its wild and untamed and tends to leak from the person and is easily perceived by others. Such as Kenpachi and Ichigo. He doesnt need his own personal classification then its gonna be like that for everyone and lets not even get into Aizen. Salubri 13:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC) I suppose you're right, still it does seem to kind of fit for him although I'm not entirely sure about Aizen, one question though, where did those data graphs come from the ones shown on each current captain? .--SalmanH 14:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC) I really cant remember someone put them up a while ago. They are from some character thing that was put out like at the beginning of the series, but we mostly dont go to much by them cause we kind list what is actually known but they still are pretty interesting but im not sure they are entirely accurate at least for some of the characters. As it lists certain captains as powerful but seemingly less powerful then they are portratyed, i think the problem lies in that there really no explanation behind what the details of whats be graphed. Though there are those obviously right on the money. Salubri 14:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC) Name In anime episode 55, Nanao said his name was Genryūsai Shigekuni-Yamamoto. Is the name right on the wikia OR anime? ---Klross1. It turns out your right Bleach Official Character Book Souls, pg 200, clearly states his name is in fact arranged as Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto, the profile has been changed to reflect it. Salubri 00:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC) :I believe Viz incorrectly ordered his name in the Souls book, and it was ordered incorrectly in the anime as well. Why do I say this? There are no middle names in Japanese. And if his last name was meant to be "Shigekuni-Yamamoto", the kanji would be ordered 重國山本 元柳斎. Since they are ordered the way they are (山本元柳斎 重國), it is likely that his last name is indeed Yamamoto-Genryūsai, and his first name is Shigekuni. Also note that Komamura calls him "Genryūsai-dono"...to call soutaicho by his first name would probably be very disrespectful. Big red01027 09:40, 6 June 2009 (UTC) Well unfortunately its at a point between correctness and the way Kubo wrote it. Souls has every name in there written the western way and so is his. Unless you wanna ask Kubo himself its unfortunately a moot point. I understand your reasoning but also if we discount how his name is put in the official guide then we have to discount everything in there. Not to mention his name was always put down the original way and never questioned so its not like this was a back in forth thing. If your idea is that viz or the anime has presented it wrong then i dont know at this point because this happened as recently as of this week became an issue. If there is proof of the way you say it is conclusively then no problem it be can be changed. Salubri 11:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC) :I believe the way Kubo wrote it and the way Viz interpreted it are different. Also, I think it was an isolated error on their part, since no one else's name was put down erroneously. But if you're fine with it this way, then so am I. Sorry if I'm a bother. Big red01027 16:12, 6 June 2009 (UTC) Not a name It is my belief that "Genryūsai" is not part of his name, but an honorific title that signifies his status as a (grand)master of Shinigami combat arts. A search in KanjiNetworks for 斎 (sai) returns meanings of "purification" and "room (for abstinence, training or study)"; the last meaning gives connotations of a hermit who dedicates his solitary life to mastering a traditional art, be it martial or otherwise (Shaolin monks come to mind). The kanji itself occurs frequently in honorific titles of martial-art masters, both historical and fictional, which they usually take up later in their lives, similar to how samurai gain several names throughout their lifetimes ("childhood name", "adulthood name", and "court title" being the most common); the titular character of Rurouni Kenshin, for example, is known by the title of Battousai (抜刀斎), which in the aforementioned context roughly means "master of drawing the blade" (抜刀 lit. means "drawn sword"). MarqFJA 17:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC) That is most interesting thing I've heard so far on here I think. I wonder if anyone can confirm this cause I have been thinking the same thing myself. If we can possibly get an accurate translation that would be good.Salubri 06:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC) More food for thought. Never been any good with the Kanji but if you take the romanized version and break it down to: Gen-ryu(u)-sai your left with: original-style/method/manner of-purification. Saying that my methed isn't the most reliable, but it's just a thought. Spyrechild 20:24, November 19, 2009 (UTC) Sheesh, do I have to do all the hard work for this? Anyway, I googled a bit for meanings related to 斎, and found that it has strong Buddhist connotations, particularly of ascetic lifestyle; very fitting for the image of a martial-arts hermit. Fact: Miyamoto Musashi, the historical master swordsman, was significantly influenced by Buddhism in regards to his philosophy on both martial arts and life in general. MarqFJA 00:38, November 30, 2009 (UTC) I've wrestled with the fact of his three names myself, as like Salubri said, it's odd for the Japanese. To approach from the basics, a breakdown: 山本元柳斎重國 Yamamoto Genryuusai Shigekuni is the order in Japanese which, as a typical Asian custom, puts their names in the order family name-personal name (cf. the protagonist's foes' favorite invocation: "Kurosaki Ichigo!"). The only other names of this like in my recent memory were the names of the Jurai royal family members in Tenchi Muyou!, e.g. 柾木阿重霞 樹雷 Masaki Aeka Jurai. Aeka is her personal name, and Masaki seems to be designated as her family name, given it's also used by her father, mother, and sister--but not her maternal grandmother, who uses Kamiki, being married into a different branch of the family. Thus, it would seem in such as case that she is "Aeka Jurai Masaki," or "Aeka of the Jurai (family) Masaki." However, Yamamoto does seem an even more unusual case. MarqFJA's find is very helpful, as the suffix ''-sai'' 斎 is also found in the name of eccentric Inuyasha swordsmith Toutousai. Though I can't find any definite answer on this as a suffix (i.e. its exact intended meaning), his insights do seem to suggest a kind of "sage" meaning, as in one who "has been purified, as a Buddhist ascetic." Spyrechild was, however, misled by a homophonous word genryuu 源流 "source, origin" (lit. "source-flow/course"). The genryuu 元柳 in Genryuusai is actually "prime/founding willow (tree)" (柳 "willow; bliss, pleasure"). That Ukitake also calls him "Genryuusai-sensei" is significant, lending credence to this as a title of some kind--though an odd placement for one. In conclusion, barring further data (and I tried searching it out in all ways I can think of), I think it should be (admittedly tentatively) assumed that his name is "Shigekuni Yamamoto Genryuusai" wherein Shigekuni may be his first name (I did find other Japanese people with a personal name Shigekuni, though with different kanji), Yamamoto is his family name, and Genryuusai is indeed an honorific title, meant as something like "prime willow ascetic/sage." I tried to cursorily search out any mythical associations of the willow in Japanese culture/folklore, but haven't found anything yet. Its alternating meanings "willow" and "pleasure" are probably a clue, in the vein of the peach in Asia having long been associated with longevity. Adam Restling 08:26, December 8, 2009 (UTC) Wow. All I can say is thanks Kubo. U have us one heck of a challenge here. [[User:Minato88|'Minato']] 02:21, December 9, 2009 (UTC) I think I've found more evidence that supports this conclusion, by accident, while researching Jiroubou Ikkanzaka's stuff. In the raws, he uses his nickname and calls himself Kamaitachi Jiroubou --very similar to Genryuusai Shigekuni ! If Jiroubou had used his full name, might we have ended up with a Japanese form like Ikkanzaka Kamaitachi Jiroubou that perfectly parallels Japanese-order Yamamoto Genryuusai Shigekuni in the family name-title-personal name order? I think we might have! I think we have here the closest to confirmation that, in Western personal name-first order, his name is "Genryuusai Shigekuni Yamamoto" (sort of like if you were saying "Old Master Shigekuni Yamamoto") that we're liable to get this side of the globe. However, we could probably retain the current "Westernized" order "Shigekuni Yamamoto Genryuusai" and keep the title at the end, if you want. It sounds better, anyway, and is almost the same, like saying "Shigekuni Yamamoto the Genryuusai." Adam Restling 07:05, December 9, 2009 (UTC) Here's another tidbit that I'd like to contribute: In feudal-era Japan, the full name structure for samurai and such aristocratic classes was "family name-childhood personal name-title(s)-adulthood personal name"; the famed Oda Nobunaga, for example, would have introduced himself as "Oda Saburou (lit. 'third son') Kazusanosuke (vice governor of Kazusa) Nobunaga", though he might have probably preferred to drop the "Saburou" childhood name. MarqFJA 11:15, December 11, 2009 (UTC) Nadegiri Both manga and anime show that he said Ryuujin Jakka: Number 1 Nadegiri so it does actually belong in the zanpakuto section not the Powers and Abilities section.--SalmanH 19:22, December 3, 2009 (UTC) Actually its in the powers and abilities section but its not an ability of the zanpakuto it is sword technique shown very clearly in the anime. Salubri 21:23, December 3, 2009 (UTC) So saying ryuujin jakka before the attack was for dramatic affect.--''SalmanH'' (Talk) 13:07, December 7, 2009 (UTC) It would seem so, it is the name of his zanpakuto which is being used to do the deed. Its clearly a fire type zanpakuto the attack is not shown to used any remote bit of fire in it and its numbered suggesting probably 1 of many in a number of attack techniques. [[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 19:41, January 19, 2010 (UTC) Zanpakuto Translation Ryūjin Jakka (流刃若火; "Flowing Flame Blade" or "Flowing Sword, Young Fire") There are multiple possible translations given but we only need one and the most accurate would be the best. [[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 19:18, January 18, 2010 (UTC) Ryuujinjakka ryuu, ru "flow, course" | nagasu "drain, pour, shed (blood, tears); wash away; set adrift" jin, nin | ha, yaiba "blade, edge, sword, cutting tool" jaku, nyaku | moshi "else, or; similar(ly), just as, like" ka, ko | hi "fire, flame, blaze" I would translate "flowing blade-like flame." You'll note I make Ryuujinjakka all one word, but other names, like Tensa Zangetsu, two words; I try to insert such "word boundaries" when it seems the names consist of two lexical units, not a more ostensibly-compounded single name--as well as to cut down on the jawbreaker appearance forms like Tensazangetsu might give off. Thus, I think of a name like Tensa Zangetsu--where it's clear the Tensa part is added to the normal name--as two words, as though "heaven-chain slaying-moon." While English usually can use one word in such cases--e.g. policeman is noun + noun--as I said, making the word seem not so long, and recognizing the name as a pair of Tensa + original name Zangetsu, looks more elegant to me. Ryuujinjakka I make one word because of its more lit. form "flowing-blade-like-flame," and it seemed as odd to me to divide it into Ryuujin Jakka "flowing-blade like-flame" as it would dividing, say, the English name Robert into Ro Bert "fame, bright." Adam Restling 06:51, January 19, 2010 (UTC) Ryūjin Jakka Shouldn't Nadegirl be under his Zanpakuto skills cause in the episode when he uses nadegirl he says Ryūjin Jakka Nadegirl or Ryūjin Jakka Number 1 nadgirl so why is it under his power and abbilities ?? There was a previous discussion on this. The manga trumps the anime period. It is a sword technique its not an effect of his zanpakuto. There was no fire it simply a technique, it was shown as such in the anime. Saying the name of his zanpakuto is not justification of it being a technique. Momo says the name of his zanpakuto when using its ability. Renji says howl zabimaru when its in shikai and bankai. There is nothing stating that saying the name before or after is actual pertaining to the use of an ability. The only ability other then normal shikai used was the one he used to trap aizen, gin and tosen. [[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 21:48, February 5, 2010 (UTC) :While we are on the subject of Ryujin Jakka, his new power Ennetsu Jigoku. My translator has that this is a Buddhist term. Now, I have a great deal of understanding of Buddhism but I wasn't familiar with this term. So I researched this (meaning I went to wikipedia). From my understanding, this may refer to the Naraka, which can be translated to hell. There are several different hells, including a hot hell called the Sanjiva. In this realm, the ground is made of hot iron heated by an immense fire. Beings sentenced here attack each other with iron claws. The attendants of Yama, the judge of the dead, appear and attack the being with many fiery weapons as well. As soon as the being experiences an unconsciousness like death, they are suddenly restored to full health and the attacks begin again. :Seeing as KT (TK?) has used Buddhist terms for some of the Shinigamis' powers, this might be something that should be put in the article. However, since it is from wikipedia, it might not be reliable. I can try to find some outside sources for this though. --Shinitenshi 07:34, February 25, 2010 (UTC) It will be nothing more then speculation of Kubo's intentions. He has so far used terms for various asian cultures, not specifically explained why he uses them. Regardless of where its from it cannot be placed in any article.[[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 07:43, February 25, 2010 (UTC) Using 'captain' instead of 'Captain'... Please refrain from doing it. For future reference, as it is a title, it should ALWAYS be capitalized. Same goes with Lieutenants. They should never be lowercased. Just thought I should put that out there...it was really getting annoying having to do that over and over in only one article. I'm sure other articles are just as bad. I'll get to as many as I can (I only edit grammar and spelling errors; I'll never actually add new material). And finding that it sometimes was capitalized after just fixing ones that weren't was just as annoying.../rantIffy88 04:48, February 26, 2010 (UTC) :We only capitalize the captain/lieutenant when they are used as a title with the person's name (e.g. "Captain Yamamoto" is capitalized, but "captain of the First Division" and "the captain then attacked" are not). The rest of the time, captain etc is used as a normal word and thus should not have a capital letter. That is the format we use on the entire wiki, please stick to it. The changes you made have already been undone. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 11:58, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Yamamoto Hitting the Ground I was just reading the article, and I raized my eyebrows when I read that Wonderweiss "throws (Yamamoto) sending the captain-commander crashing into the cityscape below"... Is that what really happened? Because I was under the impression that Yamamoto simply shunpoed down to avoid the sudden moment of vulnerability... Auron85 15:58, February 26, 2010 (UTC) :If it was shunpo, it would not have caused an explosion of debris/smoke/dust when he reached the ground. He was clearly thrown to the ground. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 16:17, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Oh... So those weren't the fires of Ennetsu Jigoku that were extinguishing... Oh well. I guess Wonderweiss is simply freakishly strong. Auron85 04:45, February 27, 2010 (UTC) Few things in the Abilities section i was just reading this and i noticed a few things. just want to check it's ok before changing: 1 milleniums isn't a word it's millenia 2 There is a sentence about the commander deliberately giving harsh orders because he probably knows his sunbordinates will act rebelliously within the tactician section. i want to remove that as it's speculative. 3 For his spiritual pressure i think it should mention that he killed several low level hollows with spiritual pressure alone when he released RJ in karakura town. I'm not sure if this was just in the anime though. thanks for you opinions Nick D Wolfwood 14:13, March 1, 2010 (UTC) Well Millennia should be used. That sentence your referring to is speculative, not entirely sure how it got there but it should be removed. Im not sure where it was shown his reiatsu doing such a thing, as he is rarely if ever seen in battle. So few times and I don't recall but Im not convinced that it would matter as a talking point. There is no doubt of his power so the fact that it alone can kill low level hollows doesn't really add much that we don't already know.[[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 14:37, March 1, 2010 (UTC) I think the killing Hollows thing was from chapter 316, when Aizen arrived in Karakura Town. The spirit pressure of the combined armies of Soul Society and Aizen was too much for them to bear. There was no indication that it was solely Yamamoto that was responsible for it. Ryujin Jakka was released after they died. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 14:45, March 1, 2010 (UTC) Thanks both. Nick D Wolfwood 13:51, March 3, 2010 (UTC) Reiatsu I think Yamamoto's raietsu should be classified as Vast as just his New move that was suppost to kill aizen there were like 8 Massive fire pillars and like it said there hasen't been a shinigami stronger than him in the last 1000 years so i think he should get a bonus aafter wat we have seen on the newest chapter And while im at it where is his new move doulble bone or wat its called it should be added Bankai Ichigo 10:05, March 4, 2010 (UTC)Bankaiichigo :If you read the Reiryoku page, which explains the power levels we use, you will see that Vast is a special level reserved for those that have very high power but cannot control it - i.e. Ichigo and Zaraki. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 11:48, March 4, 2010 (UTC) Hand to Hand Is there some reason we're saying that it is unknown how much his skill with hand to hand has decreased with his age? I don't remember it being stated anywhere. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 12:15, March 4, 2010 (UTC) It maybe from Bootleg. According to the fan translation I am currently using (since Bootlegs is not coming out in English until July this year), his battle chart flavour text reads "The Head Captain possesses overwhelming power in every corner, but with old age encroaching, his physical strength is beginning to decline..." However, given that Yamamoto showed pretty impressive hand-to-hand skills in the latest chapter, we can surmise that he's still better then most, if not all, of the other captains and maybe even Yoruichi - the undisputed hand to hand specialist. Tinni (Talk) 12:46, March 4, 2010 (UTC) :Thanks. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 12:20, March 5, 2010 (UTC) The symbols for Sōkotsu are 双骨 . --Reikson 16:21, March 4, 2010 (UTC) The hand-to-hand combat section is kind of repeating what was already said in his swordsmanship, durability, and strength section. The swordsmanship section already talks about his millenniums worth of experience, his strength section already talks about his ability to punch through Esada-level hierro, and combat abilities has nothing to due with being able to take a beating, which is already covered in the durability section. Since I can't change the section due to it being lock indefinitely, maybe someone else could write something like "Even without his Zanpakutō. Yamamoto is still a highly potent combatant. While it is uncertain how much his skill has declined from his advanced age, he is can effortlessly catch a strike from the deceptively fast Allon. Yamamoto is also capable of delivering powerful blows that can smash through Espada-level hierro and block the majority of multiple punches from a multi-armed opponent." I'm not saying that this change has to be word for word, just that the hand-to-hand combat section needs some work in my opinion. Steveo920 22:31, March 4, 2010 Yamamoto's History In Chapter 394 (on Mangastream now), it says that he was the 30th Captain-Commander and has served that position for 1000 years. You may want to add that, as well as the part where he says "There hasn't been any Shinigami more powerful than me over the past 1000 years." in the Powers and Abilities section.--Gold3263301 02:12, March 4, 2010 (UTC) Also, should we add that to the 1st Division that there were atleast 29 other Captain-Commanders before him?Northstar1012 02:35, March 4, 2010 (UTC) Just to be clear all that information is already entered on the page in the appropriate areas. Secondly he never says the 1st division he says the title of captain-commander. Though it maybe likely there is no information stating the title is synonymous with the 1st division at all.[[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 02:44, March 4, 2010 (UTC) *Copying from BleachAsylum: : Building on what czeliate has already provided: : Nanyue washi ga sennen mo Gotei Juusantai no soutaichou wo tsutometoru to omoutoru? It's in Yamamoto's "old man speak" with a couple of archaisms (e.g. naze / nande "why" written out nanyue "(for) what reason"), and pretty blurry, but it seems clear: "Why do you think I've served as all-captain of the Thirteen Court Guard troops for 1000 years?" Then he goes on to say something *like* "Because in a thousand years, a Shinigami stronger than me has yet to be born." Will his boast prove true? His prowess is already spectacular in this chapter especially, but he has likely never faced a foe quite like Aizen. When Leviathan and Behemoth strive one with the other, may the world beware... 十三 = juusan "thirteen" = the Thirteen in Thirteen Court Guard troops. And could be confused for 三十 = sanjuu "thirty." And like Corpus said, as long as Mangastream is using Binktopia's translators, you should trust them about as much as wooden nickels. Analyzing the RAWs, Yamamoto being the 30th Captain-Commander is either a mistranslation on Mangastream's part, or them trying to troll the fanbase. Kenchan 09:59, March 4, 2010 (UTC) The scanlation that I found said that Yama's the 30th soutaichou of Soul Society and has been so for 1000 years. Is that straight from the raw, or... ? --Reikson 00:21, March 5, 2010 (UTC) *Just saw it down in the article. Why wasn't it mentioned in his History section? --Reikson 00:28, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Under the History section it's listed that Yamamoto created the Shinigami Academy 2100 years ago. First of all, is this authentic information? Secondly, according to Chapter 394, Yamamoto is the 30th Captain-Commander, and had been the CC for the past 1000 years. Could we replace the above information with this one? Since I couldn't confirm it even when I followed the citation. Akihiro Souzen 02:41, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Firstly, for the love of all things good, stop making multiple topics on the same issue. I have merged them all here and will now answer them. So pay attention because I hate repeating myself. # As confirmed by Cnet, Yama-jii said nothing about being the 30th Captain-commander. Therefore, the 30th part will not be added and the admins will remove what has been mentioned about him being the 30th captain-commander. This is in line with established information as in Bleach book of Souls it says that Yamamoto founded the Gotei 13. # Yes Yamamoto founding the Shinigami Academy 2000 years ago is authentic. It comes from Bleach book of SOULS and Bootlegs, as it says in the citation. So that information stays. # This article is locked because it is going through maintenace. In the process, his history section will be expanded. So him being the captain-commander for 1000 years will be added to his history in due course. Anything else? [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 03:11, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Sorry should have explained earlier the page is actually locked because of high traffic that may threaten the integrity of the page and initiate possible edit warring. Prime example being the influx of what ifs and maybe's and lack of knowledge on current chapter as well as the apparent questioning of referenced information (for what reason i dont understand, its referenced there is no question). Also the constant issue raised recently on this page alone.[[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 03:35, March 5, 2010 (UTC) One more thing. According to Yamamoto the Arrancar Arc, the information about the location about the King's Key was passed down from Head Captain to Head Captain. If he founded the Gotei 13, then he's the first Head Captain. In which case there's really no scope for the info being passed down from "Head Captain to Head Captain", right? Akihiro Souzen 14:02, March 5, 2010 (UTC) How are those two things mutually exclusive? Yamamoto explained the procedure in place to pass on the knowledge of the location of the king key, he didn't say whether that procedure was ever enacted. Besides which, do you have point in there somewhere? Because this is looking like more a conversation that belongs in the forums. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 14:23, March 5, 2010 (UTC) The fact that Yamamoto founded the Gotei 13 doesn't imply that there weren't other militaty organizations before in SS or that there weren't Captains or Captain-Commanders before it. It just assumes that he reformed the system at some point. Besides, is that really legitimate information? I have read the databooks but never seen it mention at any point that Yamamoto founded the Gotei13. It just sounds like the usual bullshit people belive to be true but nobody ever seen the actual source. ie.: urban legend.Kenchan 17:18, March 5, 2010 (UTC) This is the problem with the those with issues on the talk page we have two sets of groups here. Those that are uninformed and don't have or know the full amount of information and those who think they know but still apparently dont have the information in order to question something as being wrong or in error. It specifically states in the Bleach book of souls that he founded the Gotei 13. That much information is referenced to that point. So questioning if its fan material is not right and said corroboration of that information can be found on page 98 of that book. [[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 17:39, March 5, 2010 (UTC) As it so happens, we have a copy of Book of SOULs page 98 on file. I present to you all on the right. The relevant section is the side note attached to the First Division. Which reads, "First Company Captain Genryusai Shigenkuni Yamamoto is the founder and Captain-General of the Thirteen Companies". So the bottom line is that the Yama-jii has been the captain-commander of the Gotei 13, which he founded for, 1000 years. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 01:57, March 6, 2010 (UTC) Hand to Hand 2 According to Onemanga's translation, Yamamotos single fist blow is named Ikkotsu (link:http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/394/09/) . since it is not powerful enough to finish off Wonderweiss, he uses two fist (Soukotsu) to finish him. 17master 06:59, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Cnet confirms this. The original scan from MangaStream has serious translation issues, which is why it was missed. It will be added. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 12:12, March 5, 2010 (UTC) I've added it, but it's missing the kanji, so if anyone can identify the correct kanji and post them here, that would be great. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 12:20, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Just a stab in the dark; 一骨. Done by splicing the second character of Soukotsu with the first character of Ikkaku. It's probably not correct. Maggosh 17:57, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Maggosh is correct; from the raw of the chapter I can confirm that "一骨" is the kanji used for the attack (it's displayed in the bottom left speech bubble on the 9th page, if anyone wishes to check). Blackstar1 19:18, March 5, 2010 (UTC) I am? Well, that was a surprise. Should I add it, then? Maggosh 23:50, March 5, 2010 (UTC) I don't see why not. TomServo101 23:52, March 5, 2010 (UTC) It's locked, actually. Maggosh 23:57, March 5, 2010 (UTC) We'll just have to wait for Yyp to add it. Maybe mangastream's in a rush to post the new chapter that's why the translation's all messed up 17master 07:40, March 6, 2010 (UTC) Quotes Well since the page seems to be under protection (or I've gone idiot and I'm missing the tiny edit buttons, could be either) I've been unable to add the quotes for the recent chapters, and I think there's a couple that should be added to the page. Yama-jii's quote section is too small and doesn't seem like it's been updated in a while, could the admins add the quotes you consider good enough for the section from the latest chapter? I would suggest the one that says there hasn't been a stronger Shinigami in a thousand years for instance, but I'm sure there are two or three more that are worth mentioning. Lia Schiffer 01:40, March 12, 2010 (UTC) Currently trying to look for some.[[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 08:14, March 12, 2010 (UTC) I've added a few more. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 12:44, March 12, 2010 (UTC) Status: Are You Sure? After the latest chapter came out, Yamamoto's status was changed to incapacitated. Are you sure about this? Akihiro Souzen 07:05, March 12, 2010 (UTC) Not debating this issue, hence one of the reasons why the page is locked. Not based on personal preference just based on the information that is given until otherwise stated.[[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 08:14, March 12, 2010 (UTC) new pic? Should we add a new profile pic? To be honest the pic that is used right now looks kind of stupid...he looks stoned. The End 01:37, December 9, 2009 (UTC) If u have any suggestions please post them. [[User:Minato88|'Minato']] 02:17, December 9, 2009 (UTC) Yama~jii is another character that it is very hard to find decent shots of. I have a couple, but they have too many problems. While they are good quality images, neither show him facing the camera properly and both have poor lighting (one shading, the other fire) and have too much of his head cut off. I can't think of any time we have got a good shot of the guy. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] (Talk) 15:18, December 9, 2009 (UTC Am I correct in assuming that we want a profile image of Yamamoto with his eyes open? I do have a few that might be acceptable but his eyes are closed. - Mr. N 23:23, March 13, 2010 (UTC) :Eyes open is definitely a must, but we are not in much of a position to be picky about it. That one is an improvement on the old one, but still not great. --[[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 20:25, March 15, 2010 (UTC) Ugh. That is DEFINITELY going to be difficult then. Alright, I will put these two up. We could look at Bleach movie screenshots too, but I think that there probably is not going to be decent shots of Yamamoto for a while (unless we are willing to go back into a few past Arcs). (I also have a version of the episode 203 candidate without the logo on the top right corner).- Mr. N 04:28, March 16, 2010 (UTC) If it's so difficult to find a picture of him with his eyes open, then wouldn't that be all the more reason to use an eyes-closed shot?, since he's more commonly seen this way, and with that in mind, my choice of the shown images is 210 --[[User:WhiteArmor|'WhiteArmor']] (Talk) 12:53, April 12, 2010 (UTC) I'll have to go with 210 as well. Maggosh 18:41, April 12, 2010 (UTC) 210? No way, he almost looks smiley! I'd say the current picture, once again, is fine for the time being, even if it's old. We're close to the FKT arc, I know he doesn't get much screentime until much further episodes (probably not much to hope before Burnout Inferno), but can we wait and see if we can get some better shot that depicts him in his usual attitude (serious), rather than that shot from the 210. Maybe I'm too picky, but I prefer to have good pictures, even if they look old, rathr than rushing to change them for not-so-good pictures, just because they are old. Lia Schiffer 18:49, April 12, 2010 (UTC) Found this. --|[[User:WhiteArmor|'WhiteArmor']]|(Talk)|-- 13:26, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Facing the camera, eyes open, every detail included...the only thing is he's shirtless. But I digress. Maggosh 13:47, April 19, 2010 (UTC) I think we should put the picture of episode 210, that picture is better than the picture that he has now, plus the quality is better. User:Zangetsu20 Hello, everyone! I have just recently found this image. I think that it is an excellent candidate for having Yamamoto's eyes open (if the Episode 210 image does not work). His head is chopped off a little, but I think that this will work. - Mr. N 02:01, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :Good find Nwang. Great quality without being at an odd angle like 188 & 203, plus eyes open. I'd go with 206. [[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 10:30, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :I'll have to go with 206 as well. Maggosh 14:23, April 22, 2010 (UTC) So...is it fine to change the picture to the 206 image? It has been about a week since I posted it up for consideration. - Mr. N 22:29, April 27, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, this one's definitely better than the one I have, I go for 206 also. -[[User:WhiteArmor|'WhiteArmor']]-(Talk)- 04:19, May 1, 2010 (UTC) Okay. I will go ahead and change the image then. - Mr. N 23:57, May 5, 2010 (UTC) status: deceased as the spell says: sacrificial spell. He is dead now, right?Noyas 20:10, March 19, 2010 (UTC) To make this clear so it doesn't have to be repeated multiple times. To whomever it may concern if your a regular user on the site you should know that we are notorious for being up to date and current on the vast majority of information about bleach. So I would ask the question if something current and important is not up it would be obvious to assume that we know and we have already addressed it. For those that don't know we have decided to leave the status of the captain-commander as Incapacitated or unknown. The words Aizen says are ambiguous and dont really denote the fate of Yamamoto. He uses the term sacrificial in reference to the kido spell used. Whether or not Yama is gone is never stated nor do the panels show any such thing. In dealing with such things on the site if it is seen or stated then it is placed. In this instance nothing is confirmed or denied and to place anything would be no more then assumption as there is equal between those that believe one way or another. But the fact is neither is confirmed, Aizen doesn't elaborate and if anything he details his knowledge of the kido spell, but not what happens to the captain-commander. Just to note sacrificial can not only mean death but suffering. In any case until it is confirmed visually or actually stated then it will remain as it is, until a chapter can determine otherwise. We have also decided not to argue this point, with only the chapters to determine future decision. [[User:Salubri|'Salubri']] [[User talk:Salubri|(Talk)]] 21:26, March 19, 2010 (UTC) correct me if i'm wrong but the wound aizen inflicted on yamamoto in chapter 393 is gone in 394 If you are referring to the stab wound, it wasn't gone it was simply not a wound that hindered Yama-jii's fighting ability in 394. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 05:47, April 10, 2010 (UTC) History Section I am not sure why this page is still locked as it isn't likely to be at risk of high number of edits but since it is locked, someone else will have to edit his history section and separate out the history added during the Zanpakuto unknown rebellion arc. The same way it is separate for Ginrei Kuchiki. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 05:47, April 10, 2010 (UTC) A smililarity I've spotted that Yamamoto and Hitsugaya Toushirou actually had lots in common. They are both strict in their work, and their Zanpakutos have lots of special Techniques with names. Plus they've got obvious Elemental-type Zanpakuto. I think this is something worth adding but I'm not sure where Please sign your posts. In my opinion, this is not very worthnoty. It's like the huge list of similarities between Nelliel and Harribel, though it was considered relevant in the beginning, in the end it was deleted. If you start to squint, you could even say, "Hey, Renji and Grimmjow have lotsa things in common, they even have crazy hair color." or "Ulquiorra and Byakuya have a lot of similarities! They're very cold and quiet, very powerful, both fought Hollow Ichigo while he wasn't under control of his Hollow, have black hair, blah blah blah". This is the very same reason why the Espada/Shinigami counterparts section was eliminated. Besides, this kind of comparisons border especulation and don't really add much to the articles. I think there was already a Trivia that stated that both Yamamoto and Hitsugaya had the strongest elemental zanpakuto of their types, I'm not sure if it's still there. That's up to the admins of course. Lia Schiffer 18:43, April 12, 2010 (UTC) It would regarded as junk trivia and scrapped if it was added. In addition to what Lia Schiffer said above, the comparison is unnecessary. [[User:Yyp|'Yyp']] [[User talk:Yyp|(Talk)]] 21:15, April 12, 2010 (UTC) Right, got it. KingBlackChicken Pic removal The license for the a pic to the right, which is currently used in the appearance section, says that it is from the Bleach series. However, the art style doesn't match the anime or even a manga colour. Whichever way I believe the image violates the image policy and I suggest that it be removed. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 00:04, April 29, 2010 (UTC)